brodie helmet identification

Both helmets are made from hardened manganese steel. Depending on your recommendation and initial read, I may take some light sandpaper to the brim and see what I can find. This used brass case is approximately 75 mm diameter and is marked with a 1916 manufacturing date. In WW1 Allies: Great Britain, France, USA, etc 1914 - 1918, In Polish Armed Forces - Second Republic (Siy Zbrojne II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej) 1918-1939, blue brodie helmet(or not) identification, Advice on purchasing a British Military MKII Helmet. For slow learners: A Brodie is simply the design of British Army helmet worn in both WWI and WW2, and not a particular type of WWI helmet? Sign up for a new account in our community. 2nd Bn. H.M.S. I'm sorry I could not find a post 1916 stamp (see below for two examples of post Aug 1916 stamps. In conclusion, the M1 can probably be designated as the most successful combat helmet ever made. The high temperature of the oven caused the lead based paint to melt briefly before hardening which encapsulated the saw dust particles securing them to the helmets surface. In the photo it looks like it could be surface rust? dailyinfo[29]=' Oberleutnant zur See Axel Carl Ludwig VON SCHOENERMARCK S.M.S. The original and very distinctive steel helmet adopted by Great Britain was designed and patented in 1915 by its inventor, John L Brodie. http://www.cefresearch.com/phpBB2/index.php, Here is a reply from Roger Lucy, who wrote the book TIN LIDS, "In his article on the Mk.I in Militaria # 6, July, 1994, the British helmet guru, Marcus Cotton, suggests that FKS probably stands for Thos. The Great War Forum Limited Thank you so much Leon i appreciate that , now i have all the info to keep, somehow i could never bear to part with these two gems , and they were both luck on finding as i was not looking for them in the first place, i just thought hey that's nice and bought them for my shelf , again thank you. 11-30-2022 Local Time 06:08 AM The "4B" is a McCord Radiator stamp for the M17A1 (aka "Kelly") helmet. From left to right: A pair of clamped chin straps with male snaps for the parachutist M1 helmet and liner next to a pair of standard infantry chinstrap used from early 1950s to the mid-1970s. I bought a M1 Vietnam era helmet through mail order surplus years ago and turns out they grabbed me a very collectable M1C paratrooper helmet. I don't think FKS has been definitively pinned down, but most sources say it represents Firth & Sons Ltd. brodie helmet All Auction Buy it now 386 results Service Type Country/ Organization Era Issued/ Not-Issued Condition Price Buying format All filters WW 2 BRODIE NFS Helmet 1940. Brodie helmets - How to identify By depaor01 4 January , 2013 in Uniforms,Cap Badges and Insignia depaor01 Old Sweats 2.2k Location:Dublin, Ireland Posted 4 January , 2013 Could somebody post a beginner's guide to what exactly a Brodie helmet is, if there was any other type of British helmet in WWI, and how they differed from WW2? A-125-2 ID IN SHELL (HG-43) WWII GERMAN SS M-42 HELMET IN ORIGINAL SHIPPING CRATE. However, he has recently discovered that apparently all Brodie and Mk.I helmets were pressed by Joseph Sankey and Sons, so the the initials simply indicate the steel supplier. NPH Accordingly the main actors in the war quickly began developing new headgear. It's easy! The Both the liners and the chinstrap on the British and its American cousin are almost identical. 2012-2023 WW2HELMETS.COM. Powered by Invision Community, Second World War British Brodie Helmet Identification, Helmets- mainly WW2 British and Commonwealth, both Civil Defense and from field service. if (month<10) month="0"+month Display as a link instead, You cannot paste images directly. Indeed so functional was it and easy to manufacture that the Brodie was purchased by many other countries and the design was adapted by several other European states and even by the United States. FOR SALE! 100% refund policy on all items returned within 30 days. var fontstart = '' There are 3 letters painted on the front i think it could be either one of these combinations: Accordingly many countries have used the M1 themselves until recently, while a small number of countries continue to use this Second World War helmet in their armed forces. First questions and then the story. The codeusuallystarts with a Z and is followedby a series of numbers. The Brodie has been described by the Imperial War Museum as "a masterpiece of simple design", while militaria expert Martin Pegler calls it "the most instantly recognisable symbol of the British Tommy", although most troops would not have referred to it by by the same name. // Stop Define Variables for days of the month the corners been cut off, can't make out the shape in the photo. Middlesex Regiment who died 25/02/1921 LADYWELL CEMETERY United Kingdom ' Colin is the man for Brodies but I think he might struggle with this one too. The helmet istself is a Mk.1* but i have looked and cannot find any manufacturer stamps on either the helmet or liner/strap. I need help identifying some markings on the second world war brodie. dailyinfo[24]=' Captain Denzil Robert THURSTON Air Force Cross Airship Training Wing (Cranwell). The A.E.F. By DizzyDeano96 12 months ago. After many experiments, Brodie came to the conclusion that a relatively simple form of helmet would offer reasonable protection, be serviceable and cheap to produce in large numbers. dailyinfo[17]=' PLY/3566 Private Samuel ROBINSON H.M.S. The dark green color and cork coating (to reduce the possibility of ight reflection) is very close to what the first M1 helmets had applied. Although the helmet shells do look the same they do not feel the same. Email: Support@WW2Helmets.Com Phone: (208) 656-3440. Just sold the ARVN ranger helmet. Only a few very minor details set them apart from each other. dailyinfo[17]=' PLY/3566 Private Samuel ROBINSON H.M.S. New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' liners in them, so it would not matter if you were to put an other makers liner in it as long as it's the same date as the shell. 3rd Bn. helmet Bowl-shaped steel helmet showing remains of crude dappled camouflage colours of light brown and mid-green on an apple green field. The shape of the helmet was also somewhat similar to the Brodie in that it was based around a circular steel cap which provided maximum protection to the top of the head, with the rim protecting the ears and upper face. leon21 Was wondering if anyone could give some more info on it. Both the British and American helmets have marking stamped into the steel on the underside of the helmets skirt. dailyinfo[11]=' Captain Charles Edmund WOOD Mentioned in Despatches Adjt. Really appreciate the expertise provided here and hoping that you can help me with the helmet pictured. Though I do not know the code for the manufacturers. "Foyle." dailyinfo[24]=' Captain Denzil Robert THURSTON Air Force Cross Airship Training Wing (Cranwell). depaor014 January , 2013 in Uniforms,Cap Badges and Insignia. Known Heat or Manufacturer Lot code Stamp Marks of M1917 shells. Probably the most recognised piece of kit from the Second World War is the British tin helmet which was also used in a variety of forms on the Home Front. Lincolnshire Regiment who died 05/03/1916 CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES France ' The helmet was painted a camouflage mix of green, blue and orange, though a variety of alternative colours were also introduced for use in different theatres. The list is on going if you know any more please let us know. A thick felt pad was fitted to the top of the skull interior to aid in cushioning against impact. Worcestershire Regiment who died 23/02/1915 LOKER CHURCHYARD Belgium ' My buddy has a Brodie Helmet which he might be offering for sale. the problem is that, all the war time services such as the ARP, NFS, and various Civil Defence Units as well as the Home Guard all were. It also is interesting that the British kept the Brodie Helmet while the US went to the M1 for better protection. M1 Helmet Identification; Shipping; Sizing; 1-877-862-5245; TOP POTS - DEDICATED TO M-1 HELMET PRESERVATION. The colour is fine looks to be the factory green finish, you can buy second hand original liners on line as long as it is for the MkII helmet. The bail holder is secured to the helmets skirt by way of a steel split rivet. I would leave the chin strap that is original, it's up to you what you want to do, with the helmet shell, it would have had an originalBMB liner dated the same as the shell, but I've seen BMB helmets with other maker. By 1916, Brodie helmet . I would say the paintwork on your helmet is original. Identifying a Mk.1* British Civil Defence Brodie. stepback_antiques 12 years ago. What pattern of helmet is this, and given the unusual markings, is it a valuable relic, or is it some fantasy piece suitable to be stripped and restored to issue green? I have looked on a couple brodie specialist websites and cant find anything. Colloquially, it was called the shrapnel helmet, battle bowler, Tommy helmet, tin hat, and in the United States the doughboy helmet. This list is on going if you know of any more please let us know. We offer a 100% return policy. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Failing this, simply search on this forum under Brodie and you should find a wealth of information etc. Royal Horse Artillery who died 16/03/1917 VARENNES MILITARY CEMETERY France ' The British Mark I has a rubber ring sometimes called adoughnut sewn between two pieces of wool in the base of the helmet dome. Mar 08, 2023 1914-18 WW1 ARMY SWORD & SCABBARD $20. "Foyle." In the case of the British Mark I there is typically a letter followed by a slash followed by another letter. Powered by Invision Community, Brodie Steel trench helmet Identification marks, Upcoming changes to logging in - click here, GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. M16 LW transitional helmet. For instance, we are all familiar with American troops digging up foxholes to serve as make-shift beds and trenches during the Battle of the Bulge in Belgium and eastern France in the winter of 1944. BRODIE HELMET $110. Indeed, a domestically produced version of the M1 is still in use today amongst the Indian armed forces, as well as several other countries such as Vietnam, Turkey and Colombia, albeit often in a ceremonial capacity. if (month<10) month="0"+month Welcome to the forum, is the red definitely paint? In August 1915 he acquired a patent for a steel helmet design of his own, one which could be produced from a single sheet of steel pressed into the first basic Brodie helmet. used by someone in a fire department role, maybe a works fireman. While they were initially produced from manufactured paper fibres, these models were quickly discontinued when it was realised that they degraded in short order, particularly in the tropical conditions of the Pacific War in 1942 and 1943. The helmets I have seen wereUSM1 helmets, however they might have worn the Brodie pattern too earlier on. WW2 BRITISH ARMY Staff Officers Cap and Collar Tabs - 26.62. Original Item: One-of-a-kind. NOT JUST RESTORATION. The American P17 chinstrap bail negated the flaws of the British design. Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' dailyinfo[10]=' 14780 Member Ida Styles HUGHES (Oxford) Womens Royal Air Force who died 10/03/1919 OXFORD (ROSE HILL) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' The U.S. produced over 2.7 million Brodie helmets by the end of the war. Related Weapons & Armor. if (dailyinfo[daym] != "") { document.write(fontstart+dailyinfo[daym]+fontend) } A quick examination of an original example and the brush strokes can easily be seen. In total the steel cap, liner and the accoutrements such as the chinstrap weighed 2.85 pounds or 1.29 kgs. UK 155428944961. I always liked the Brodie Helmet, sure as protective as other helmets of the era but a neat helmet. Here is an image ( sorry for bad quality) There are 3 letters painted on the front i think it could be either one of these combinations: Unfortunately, your registration has been declined by the auctioneer. Royal Welsh Fusiliers who died 11/03/1915 FAUQUISSART MILITARY CEMETERY, LAVENTIE France ' $150-300 Information & Special Terms Internet Premium : 20% Participation Requirements: Valid Credit Card required for bidding approval Payment Options: Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express, Check, Money Order, Wire Transfer, and Cash Visa MasterCard Discover American Express Payment Instructions . As a result, it was estimated that the M1 had saved the lives of approximately 70,000 men between the outbreak of the war in late 1941 and its conclusion in the autumn of 1945. G. Budd, Manufacturing Co. The asbestos pad is quite safe it is only the thickness of thick paper, my only doubt is the chin strap mounts they are, riveted the British used split pins. Hi Tom, it looks to me like it might be a Home Guard helmet but I will let Colin give his opinion first. Eventually all his knowledge will be distilled in a book. Some form of identification may be required if you are unknown to us. Sparks Withington Co - Jackson - Michigan. 2nd Bn. 309.60 Buy It Now. The helmet was basically an inverted bowl stamped out of a single piece of manganese alloy, which was made up of 13 percent manganese and was .036" thick. Many originals show evidence of the bails being replaced. Could somebody post a beginner's guide to what exactly a Brodie helmet is, if there was any other type of British helmet in WWI, and how they differed from WW2? Progressive Knitting Works - Brooklyn - New York. Fully restored with river gravel finis, M16 LW transitional helmet. NPB. "Orbita." Seaforth Highlanders who died 20/03/1919 BEIRUT WAR CEMETERY Lebanese Republic ' After the war he was, as prior stated, he held a very high position and worked in surveying land and buildings for military purposes, including Goonhilly which was his most famous and he even chose that name. Fully restored with river gravel finis And this only accounts for its use by the American military. dailyinfo[30]=' B/469 Worker Charles BARLOW Australian Munition Worker who died 30/01/1918 NORTH SHEEN CEMETERY United Kingdom ' If its a split rivet that holds the bails in place, its Brit. Incredibly, given that the M1 was being used by some advanced militaries as recently as the 1990s and is still employed by a few countries today, the development of it dates back to the First World War in the mid-1910s. Hello Gents, it's been a long time, but I am back with an ID request. dgirardin 11 months ago. dailyinfo[1]=' Staff Nurse Edith Mary CAMMACK Associate of the Royal Red Cross, 2nd Class 4th Southern Gen. Hos. Category:Brodie helmets. In early 1915, Schwerd completed a study of head wounds that were the result of trench warfare and submitted a recommendation for steel helmets. If it is red paint then I would agree with Colin that fire serviceis likely, perhaps even from an RAF base. Palace of Westminster Home Guard cap badge. British helmets were brush painted by hand. JOHN THE BAPTIST, LAWRENCE AND ANN) CHURCHYARD United Kingdom ' I found my step-fathers fathers and grand-fathers britishbrodie helmets from ww1 and ww2. Your link has been automatically embedded. in the late 1930s - 1941 and the M1 helmet and liner was phased in 1941 - 1942. Irish Guards who died 18/03/1916 CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY France ' April 2, 2014 in The main part of the helmet was the steel shell or cap which was produced from non-magnetic Hadfield Steel, a steel and manganese alloy similar to that which the British had begun to employ to make the Brodie helmet as early as 1916. As for suppliers I found another list with a few more names that were missing from Scott's list. WW1 US AEF Unit Flashed Brodie Combat Helmet & Liner - $612.65. Some American helmets tend to be a darker olive color, while others have paint identical to their British counter parts. else { document.write(fontstart+"No major events today"+fontend); } The PASGT helmet was a new generation of combat helmet, being made from nineteen layers of Kevlar, a light-weight synthetic fibre material which offered higher levels of protection than the manganese-steel alloy from which the M1s had been manufactured. One is stamped 1938 in the 'furniture' and is either RAF blue or a police issue type. With New Vegas, I luckily was able to use the NCR Trooper Helmet, but there is no helmet like that in this game. Is it possible to take a better picture of the helmet, are there any markings inside? The MK 1 Brodie helmets are made from original MK2 steel shells have stripped out liner, chinstrap hangers and repainted the shell in the correct WW1 wartime paint then fixed in a 100% accurate reproduction. WW2 British Army Staff Officers Cap and Collar Tabs. Is it a BEF or US helmet? FOR SALE! Thanks for the video, i will show my step father and see if he can recognise his dad, I would think this is more likelyto be lettering on a Civil Defence unit helmet than Home Guard. Significantly, over 400,000 Brodies were sold to the United States for use in France after they joined the war in April 1917. //-->, By Very Solid condition. Clment. : Brodie helmets. Danish m23. var fontstart = '' It does not have that stamp so it is probably one from world war 2 then. Upload or insert images from URL. Sorry for the long post and thanks for any info you can give me. Copyright Treasure Bunker Ltd Hi J.H.E. I now think the 3 letters on the fromt is actually D then a Crown then the letter H. Also after cleaning the helmet i have found the liner manufacturers: Vero 2 = Everett.W.Vero & Co London.1937 - 1944, Very interesting Tom, if it is a crown then the letters could stand for Department Head to show he was the top. The stamping on the underside of the rim reads: G.S.W. Both manufacturers stamped their helmets with a two to four-digit number followed by a letter, but Schlueter also stamped an 'S' beneath their heat stamps. WW1 Canadian British CEF BEF Brodie Helmet & Liner. The American manufactures used an entirely different method to apply the paint to the helmets. MSA. dailyinfo[14]=' 16511 Private Albert COLEMAN "D" Coy. One of the main purposes of it was to essentially allow the head to breathe and sweat inside the steel cap. 2nd Bn. 6 Reserve Lorry Park Royal Air Force who died 28/02/1919 BELGRADE CEMETERY Belgium ' Developed by John L. Brodie, the Model 1915 "Brodie" helmet, also known as the "Tommy" helmet, was the first steel helmet introduced to British soldiers during WW1. It was also used regularly for cooking or heating up food, though the practice was discouraged, as over time it made the metal more brittle and the helmet less effective at protecting the wearer if he was shot in the head. I am trying to work out what the markings are/ what they mean. First questions and then the story. His full name was Kenneth George YeomanGeeson. If its a British helmet, could it be one provided to the Americans before American helmet production caught up? By Willow1 3 years ago. Nevertheless there was some effort to produce a more advanced version of the M1917. Both helmet have a similar dome and similar skirt. While British and American helmets may be painted similar colors the finishes on the two type of helmet differ. Was wondering if anyone could give some more info on it. dailyinfo[11]=' Captain Charles Edmund WOOD Mentioned in Despatches Adjt. I would say the paintwork on your helmet is original. We live day by day, and I always say: yesterday is history, today's reality, and tomorrow's a dream.' 3 days Left Gibson ES-330T Sunburst Electric Guitar. In addition, the heads of soldiers had relatively greater exposure than other body areas above the parapets in the European trench warfare of that period, and the British "Brodie" helmet and the nearly identical U.S. Marine Corps Doughboy helmet gave insufficient protection to the back of the skull (in contrast to the protection afforded by . Then, a man named John Leopold Brodie designed the first helmet model here in the United Kingdom. = Mine Safety Appliance Co - Pennsylvania. The man responsible for the design of the German Stahlhelm was Dr. Friedrich Schwerd of the Technical Institute of Hannover. DPH The M1 came in two parts, a hard metal shell or cap on the outside, and an inner liner hat made out of softer and more malleable materials. The Brodie was the first modern military helmet developed by Britain. Vimy Ridge?, First to adopt Motor machine guns, feared by the Germans for our Shok troop tacktics..HEE HEE HEE, just picking on you. The British did have an upgrade that was never adopted by the Americans. var day=mydate.getDay() Royal Engineers who died 31/01/1919 COLOGNE SOUTHERN CEMETERY Germany ' if it is red underneathit could have been. He was in his early forties when the war broke out and he turned his attentions to developing a military helmet along the lines that the French had just produced with the Adrian helmet. Twenty years of peace followed the end of the First World War before another major international conflict broke out. inspection stamp mark I've seen them before on liners. dailyinfo[1]=' Staff Nurse Edith Mary CAMMACK Associate of the Royal Red Cross, 2nd Class 4th Southern Gen. Hos. By holding a British shell in one hand and an American shell in the other the weight difference is obvious. A heat stamp of 50A with an 'S' beneath it on a Schlueter manufactured helmet. Welcome to the forum SR71, there's not much to go on without it's liner. John Brodie designed the 'tin helmet' as worn in WW1, hence its name. What mythical beast could that be?? 1999-11-70-31 The Brodie design featured a brim 2in (5cm) wide, which protected the head and shoulders from above. document.write; No criticism of you, however the term 'brodie' is a silly collector's term which has no historical precedence (a chap called Brodie designed an early helmet which . man in charge. G. Budd Manufacturing Co. ), ( ZJ- Marks belong to Columbian Enamelling & Stamping Co. ). Paste as plain text instead, Available on our website now, Danish m23. // Stop Define Variables for days of the month