pagan continuity hypothesis
I imagine there are many more potion makers around than we typically recognize. I wish the church fathers were better botanists and would rail against the specific pharmacopeia. That's the big question. And I guess my biggest question, not necessarily for you, but the psychedelic community, for what it's worth, or those who are interested in this stuff is how do we make this experience sacred? And Hofmann famously discovers-- or synthesizes LSD from ergot in 1938. OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. I know that that's a loaded phrase. CHARLES STANG: I have one more question about the pre-Christian story, and that has to do with that the other mystery religion you give such attention to. She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? And considering the common background of modern religions (the Pagan Continuity hypothesis), any religious group who thinks they are chosen or correct are promoting a simplistic and ignorant view of our past. I appreciate this. It is my great pleasure to welcome Brian Muraresku to the Center. So the event happens, when all the wines run out, here comes Jesus, who's referred to in the Gospels as an [SPEAKING GREEK] in Greek, a drunkard. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? So if you were a mystic and you were into Demeter and Persephone and Dionysus and you were into these strange Greek mystery cults, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better place to spend your time than [SPEAKING GREEK], southern Italy, which in some cases was more Greek than Greek. It's not to say that there isn't evidence from Alexandria or Antioch. Administration and supervision endeavors and with strong knowledge in: Online teaching and learning methods, Methods for Teaching Mathematics and Technology Integration for K-12 and College . So again, if there were an early psychedelic sacrament that was being suppressed, I'd expect that the suppressors would talk about it. Examine the pros and cons of the continuity theory of aging, specifically in terms of how it neglects to consider social institutions or chronically ill adults. Eusebius, third into the fourth century, is also talking about them-- it's a great Greek word, [SPEAKING GREEK]. That's, just absurd. They're mixing potions. And what does this earliest history tell us about the earliest evidence for an ancient psychedelic religion? And the quote you just read from Burkert, it's published by Harvard University Press in 1985 as Greek Religion. It tested positive for the microscopic remains of beer and also ergot, exactly the hypothesis that had been put forward in 1978 by the disgraced professor across town from you, Carl Ruck, who's now 85 years old, by the way. This is true. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. Do the drugs, Dr. Stang? And what we know about the wine of the time is that it was prized amongst other things not for its alcoholic content, but for its ability to induce madness. CHARLES STANG: Right. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. And according to Wasson, Hofmann, and Ruck, that barley was really a code word. CHARLES STANG: OK, that is the big question. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? But even if they're telling the truth about this, even if it is accurate about Marcus that he used a love potion, a love potion isn't a Eucharist. And I offer psychedelics as one of those archaic techniques of ecstasy that seems to have been relevant and meaningful to our ancestors. And I want to-- just like you have this hard evidence from Catalonia, then the question is how to interpret it. So somewhere between 1% and 49%. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. Like in Israel. And I did not dare. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. Wonderful, well, thank you. It's not just Cana. Not in every single case, obviously. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to. That there is no hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data for spiked beer, spiked wine. So perhaps there's even more evidence. It was-- Eleusis was state-administered, a somewhat formal affair. We don't have to look very hard to find that. There's no mistake in her mind that it was Greek. I will ask Brian to describe how he came to write this remarkable book, and the years of sleuthing and studying that went into it. The (Mistaken) Conspiracy Theory: In the Late Middle Ages, religious elites created a new, and mistaken, intellectual framework out of Christian heresy and theology concerning demons. And that's all I present it as, is wonderfully attractive and maybe even sexy circumstantial evidence for the potential use of a psychedelic sacrament amongst the earliest Christians. And I think sites like this have tended to be neglected in scholarship, or published in languages like Catalan, maybe Ukrainian, where it just doesn't filter through the academic community. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. And then was, in some sense, the norm, the original Eucharist, and that it was then suppressed by orthodox, institutional Christianity, who persecuted, especially the women who were the caretakers of this tradition. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. And I think it does hearken back to a genuinely ancient Greek principle, which is that only by fully experiencing some kind of death, a death that feels real, where you, or at least the you you used to identify with, actually slips away, dissolves. And in his book [? CHARLES STANG: Wonderful. He's the god of wine. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. I do the same thing in the afterword at the very end of the book, where it's lots of, here's what we know. Is taking all these disciplines, whether it's your discipline or archaeochemistry or hard core botany, biology, even psychopharmacology, putting it all together and taking a look at this mystery, this puzzle, using the lens of psychedelics as a lens, really, to investigate not just the past but the future and the mystery of human consciousness. There have been breakthroughs, too, which no doubt kept Brian going despite some skepticism from the academy, to say the least. And that is that there was a pervasive religion, ancient religion, that involved psychedelic sacraments, and that that pervasive religious culture filtered into the Greek mysteries and eventually into early Christianity. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. Now, I've had experiences outside the Eucharist that resonate with me. Church of the Saints Faustina and Liberata, view from the outside with the entrance enclosure, at "Sante" place, Capo di Ponte (Italy). What was being thrown into it? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . In fact, something I'm following up on now is the prospect of similar sites in the Crimea around the Black Sea, because there was also a Greek presence there. Now, that date is obviously very suggestive because that's precisely the time the Christians were establishing a beachhead in Rome. Then I see the mysteries of Dionysus as kind of the Burning Man or the Woodstock of the ancient world. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. Now, Mithras is another one of these mystery religions. Just imagine, I have to live with me. I mean, that's obviously the big question, and what that means for the future of medicine and religion and society at large. The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. But please do know that we will forward all these questions to Brian so he will know the sorts of questions his work prompts. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. And so if there is a place for psychedelics, I would think it would be in one of those sacred containers within monastic life, or pilgrims who visit one of these monastic centers, for example. When you start testing, you find things. Let me just pull up my notes here. This limestone altar tested positive for cannabis and frankincense that was being burned, they think, in a very ritualistic way. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. And I feel like I accomplished that in the afterword to my book. Or maybe in palliative care. These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. Because they talk about everything else that they take issue with. And anyone who drinks this, [SPEAKING GREEK], Jesus says in Greek, you remain in me and I in you. But things that sound intensely powerful. Was there any similarity from that potion to what was drunk at Eleusis? And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. CHARLES STANG: All right. Now, I have no idea where it goes from here, or if I'll take it myself. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . And she happened to find it on psilocybin. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I wonder if you could end by reflecting on the meaning of dying before you die. So let's talk about the future of religion, and specifically the future of Roman Catholicism. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. It was it was barley, water, and something else. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. Not much. Not just in Italy, but as kind of the headquarters for the Mediterranean. And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. Which, if you think about it, is a very elegant idea. That's just everlasting. OK, now, Brian, you've probably dealt with questions like this. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. The continuity hypothesis of dreams suggests that the content of dreams are largely continuous with waking concepts and concerns of the dreamer. So again, that's February 22. And yet I talked to an atheist who has one experience with psilocybin and is immediately bathed in God's love. I expect we will find it. So this is the tradition, I can say with a straight face, that saved my life. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. So Brian, welcome. CHARLES STANG: My name is Charles Stang, and I'm the director of the Center for the Study of World Religions here at Harvard Divinity School. I mean, if Burkert was happy to speculate about psychedelics, I'm not sure why Ruck got the reception that he did in 1978 with their book The Road to Eleusis. I took this to Greg [? 8th century BC from the Tel Arad shrine. I know that's another loaded phrase. I think psychedelics are just one piece of the puzzle. And so even within the New Testament you see little hints and clues that there was no such thing as only ordinary table wine. So those are all possibly different questions to ask and answer. Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. Again, if you're attracted to psychedelics, it's kind of an extreme thing, right? As much as we know about the mysteries of Eleusis. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? So imagine how many artifacts are just sitting in museums right now, waiting to be tested. According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? Now that the pagan continuity hypothesis is defended, the next task is to show that the pagan and proto-Christian ritual sacraments were, in fact, psychedelicbrews. If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. Although she's open to testing, there was nothing there. Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . I just sense a great deal of structure and thoughtfulness going into this experience. You obviously think these are powerful substances with profound effects that track with reality. What is it about that formula that captures for you the wisdom, the insight that is on offer in this ancient ritual, psychedelic or otherwise? And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show Now, it's just an early indication and there's more testing to be done. And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. So how exactly is this evidence of something relevant to Christianity in Rome or southern Italy more widely? And I think we're getting there. All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. [2] And this is what I present to the world. And I think that we would behoove ourselves to incorporate, resuscitate, maybe, some of those techniques that seem to have been employed by the Greeks at Eleusis or by the Dionysians or some of these earliest Christians. You won't find it in many places other than that. I see a huge need and a demand for young religious clergy to begin taking a look at this stuff. Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. And that's what I get into in detail in the book. Copyright 2023 President and Fellows of Harvard College. What was the real religion of the ancient Greeks? and he said, Brian, don't you dare. Thank you. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. And even in the New Testament, you'll see wine spiked with myrrh, for example, that's served to Jesus at his crucifixion. So that, actually, is the key to the immortality key. So let's start with one that is more contemporary. The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. Newsweek calls him "the world's best human guinea pig," and The New York Times calls him "a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk." In this show, he deconstructs world-class . You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. And then at some point they go inland. In 1950, Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote " The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity " which describes the continuity from the Pagan, pre-Christian world to what would become early Christianity in the decades and centuries before Jesus Religion & Mystical Experiences, Wine If they've been doing this, as you suggest, for 2,000 years, nearly, what makes you think that a few ancient historians are going to turn that aircraft carrier around? A profound knowledge of visionary plants, herbs, and fungi passed from one generation to the next, ever since the Stone Age? CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. The question is, what will happen in the future. And I write, at the very end of the book, I hope that they'd be proud of this investigation. Do you think that by calling the Eucharist a placebo that you're likely to persuade them? Now, I've never done them myself, but I have talked to many, many people who've had experience with psychedelics. He dared to ask this very question before the hypothesis that this Eleusinian sacrament was indeed a psychedelic, and am I right that it was Ruck's hypothesis that set you down this path all those many years ago at Brown?
